The Judgmental Mormons

Remember when I used to blog? Okay, wasn't that long ago but sure feels like it.

I have had nothing much to say here lately except for some pensive possible-grumpiness posts that I know are favourites for some of you but I haven't been able to piece my thoughts together, mostly because I just don't wannna give the effort, mostly because I've been sick with swine flu and have been around all my family 24/7 for two weeks and that's not the way I fly.

Even though I haven't figured out yet what I'm going to say here, I'm going to say it anyway.  Because that IS the way I fly.  It's a genetic disorder, I can't help it.

Lately Segullah has given me reason to be grumpy. Not because of the website and blog itself but because of the Mormon commenters.  Most are sensible.  Most get the whole Spirit of the Law thing.  But inevitably there are some who rankle my sensibilities.  And it takes effort and strength of character (which, let's be real, I don't always HAVE handy) to not silently say things like, "Ah, it's Mormons like these who make me want to leave the church and become a gay Communist magical vegan genealogy-eating drug dealer and be all up in their suburban faces JUST TO BUG THEM."  Being naturally rebellious is a hard way to be, you know.  Have sympathy for me.

So, I think these thoughts and I have to squelch them because they're stupid thoughts that turn me into a hypocrite.  No one can make me feel annoyed about anything I'm not already sensitive about.  So, thoughtless comments shouldn't bother me.  It's my fault I let them bother me. 

But let's pretend for a moment that this is not true.  Let's pretend it's the commenters' faults for creating a hostile environment for me to live in.  Let's just pretend because this creates a larger space in which I can vent and I feel like venting right now and it's my blog so there.

The very lovely Carina (Azúcar) wrote a blog post for Segullah, about how she finds it difficult to not watch R-rated movies.  (See, a late prophet once told Mormons that they shouldn't watch R-rated movies.  This doctrine is now outdated and has been trumped by the more wide-sweeping doctrine to not watch anything that promotes or encourages, explicitly or implicitly, violence and immoral sex (as opposed to the good stuff) and other bad things.  So, basically almost every movie ever made, even some Disney fluff.  Also, it was a US-centric doctrine because hello! only the US of A uses the US of A ratings system!  Your R-rated stuff is my "yeehaw! let's party!" stuff.  Guess that means I get to be more wicked than you, right?  No.  See, that's why it's a defunct commandment.)

Anyway.

Some commenter left this gem.  Her name is Carrie.  Anonymous-then-not-Carrie.  I've highlighted the parts that interested me.

"These conversations appall me. Why don’t we talk about how many of us have sipped some alcohol or who has a tattoo or how many times we went ‘too far’ with our high school boyfriend? Conversations like this have absolutely no merit. I said it, and now the next 50 comments are going to disagree with that. Whatever.

I really dislike how Mormons (women especially) sometimes use their past or current indisgressions as a badge of on honor once they’ve justified and rationalized it loudly and adamantly. I completely and one hundred percent agree that the rating system is “capricious” and that the MPAA is harder on low budget, independent movies. But I personally think there are very few PG 13 movies that Pres Benson would think appropriate for his viewing. And I’m guessing that means we probably don’t need to be watching it either, since we are ‘trying to be like Jesus’ and a prophet would be much closer to that ideal than little old me.

As you can probably tell, I’ve never seen a rated R movie. There have been MANY PG 13 movies that offended me and I turned off. I can’t imagine how I would feel watching something that was R rated. There are VERY few things in the gospel that I can do perfectly. I can pay tithing perfectly. I can not smoke perfectly. I can avoid alcohol and hot coffee perfectly. And I can follow Pres. Benson’s counsel perfectly and not see an R rated film. I can’t always be selfless. I can’t always be patient. I can’t always be charitable. I can’t always say the prayer that I should, or even remember to pray when I should. (I guess, potentially, I could do those things perfectly, but I personally find that VERY difficult) The counsel that I can follow 100%, I do, because those types of commandments are few and far between in the church. The latest Coen Brothers movie is most certainly not worth my salvation, and that is what we are putting on the line. Call me dramatic, but that’s just the way I see it.

Have you ever served in the Young Women organization? They counsel leaders there not to discuss in lessons wrong choices they’ve made and how they repented and it all worked out okay in the end with a temple marriage. I love this counsel and feel like it applies to every gospel conversation that occurs in a large group setting. Inevitably there will be someone reading this that will use this post to justify a future indisgression, thinking that others do it or that they can repent later. You think our thoughts and thought processes are more elevated than that, but I’m not so sure. I don’t think an organization like Segullah should assume that, having the large audience and public forum that they do.

In the mission statement, Segullah states that “[they] publish insightful writings which explore life’s richness and complexity while reflecting faithfulness to the gospel of Jesus Christ.” This doesn’t explore life’s richness. It’s a Hollywood movie! I don’t care what the topic is and how many awards it’s won. Any individual could have an extremely rich life and NEVER watch any movie, ever. And it certainly doesn’t reflect faithfulness to the gospel to out our sins in a somewhat public forum."

Okay.  So, Carrie makes some good points, absolutely.  Still, here are my point form thoughts on this comment:

-I was taken aback when Carrie said, "As you can probably tell, I've never seen an R rated movie."  Wow.  Doesn't that say a ton about Carrie?  She is assuming that we're judging her.  And why is she assuming that?  Because she's a judgmental person herself.  I mean, that's safe to say, right?  The whole comment oozes judgment in its tone, as well as in some things that are said. She probably can't imagine my answer that, no, I could not tell.  How could I tell what she's done in her past?  Didn't even occur to me to wonder if she's ever seen an R rated movie.  All I know is that now, today, she is quite adamant that they're avoidable. Tells me nothing about her past.

-Carrie is appalled by Mormons having conversations about struggling to live certain commandments.  I guess if we don't find it easy, if we don't struggle with the logic behind certain commandments, if we're tempted, then we should just shut up about it and put on a good face.  Because conversations like this have "no merit".  Whatsoever.  None.  Except that's not really what she said, is it?  No, she lumped Carina's post into a category of conversations glamorising and confessing past sins for the purpose of... glamorising and confessing past sins.  Except that's not what Carina did.  Way to stomp all over Carina's conscience and feelings which she laid out so generously. 

-There are many PG 13 movies that are way worse than R rated movies.  So many teen movies are raunchy-gross. There are plenty of R rated movies that are rated that way only to entice a mature audience, not because the rating is deserving.  So, Carrie not being able to imagine what an R movie is like?  Imagine a PG 13 movie only not as bad.

-Carrie, how do you know for certain that God is not going to ask for a Fargo impersonation as currency for the Celestial Kingdom?  How do you know?  If anyone is under the impression that there's a strict checklist or that watching a movie or saying a bad word is going to keep them out of the Celestial Kingdom, then they're not paying close enough attention.  What you do is less important than WHY YOU'RE DOING IT.  We're judged on our hearts too, dummy.  (If you got the irony there for humour's sake, good for you!)

-Anyone who thinks they can do Y because Carina does Y and admits to it with some mixed feelings, or because I do Y without regret and put on a good Mormon face otherwise, is either ignorant, in which case they won't be held accountable, or IS AN IDIOT.  And if they're truly idiots, then God will probably be lenient on them. Because it's hard to be smart when you're an idiot.  In which case, there's nothing for me to feel responsible for because it's all good. Thank God for mercy.  Anyone who isn't an idiot and uses someone else's sins for permission for their own knows exactly what they're doing deep inside and the real sin is lying to God about it. 

But what bugged me, the main thing that bugged me, was the way Carrie flaunted her indignation.  I could just imagine her saying, "I can't understand why you act like this is so hard! It's easy!" 

Then, we have this blog post.  Check out this portion:

"Angie and I both stood in the church hallway, bouncing our fussy babies on our hips. Our conversation turned to temple attendance. I sighed, “I’ve been going once a month to do sealings. I should probably go more often, but I’m doing the best that I can.” Angie stopped bouncing and looked at me, ”You’re not doing the best that you can. You could go more often. The temple is only five minutes away. I have two more kids than you and I go every week.” I was flabbergasted. I barely knew Angie. How dare she say that I wasn’t doing my best? But I thought about what she said for months. Was I doing my best?"

GROOOOOOAAAAAN.

Okay, it's possible that Angie could be right and that the blogger is NOT doing her best.  But there's no way in Hades that Angie can properly know that!!  Imagine how embarrassed she would have been if the blogger would have responded, "Well, actually, I've been dealing with recurring yeast infections and the temple sessions are so long."  or  "I have an anxiety disorder.  People in white remind me of that time I died and while the spirit world was peaceful and all, it reminds me that I could go at any time and that scares me because I have kids to raise."  WHO KNOWS?!  Who freakin' knows what the blogger's issues could be?  There are like, 534 possibilities for why she's not going to the temple as much as Angie. 

People who think the gospel, Life, and human beings are cut and dry make me want to reassemble their brains.  Here's a list of things that are cut and dry:

-mathematics
-the hotness of Jude Law

That's pretty much it.

Things that are not cut and dry:

-commandments
-salvation
-psychology
-forgiveness
-pretty much everything else

There are always exceptions and there are always things that you nor I can't know.  Yes, it's rare for there to be exceptions to commandments (like, Nephi killing Laban despite the commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill) but just because a commandment exists for the whole population doesn't mean that God expects you to keep it the same way he expects me to keep it. That is why we're given the gift of the Holy Ghost and the ability to receive personal revelation. 

And because nothing is black and white, generally, there's no point in debating the rightness or wrongness of someone else's decisions, really.  I mean, it's pretty difficult to not fall into that trap, but we must continue to avoid this trap with all our might.  Because to properly judge, you would need to know so many details.  The facts are never enough; you need to know hearts and that's impossible to know perfectly.

And that is why, whenever I rub (accidentally, of course) up against someone who sees things in black and white, like Carrie or Angie, I think to myself, "And praise God Almighty that you will not be our Saviour and judge!  Funny how that worked out, huh?"

Now, Mormons probably aren't more prone to being judgmental than any other demographic.  But it's the demographic that bugs me the most because I figure they should know better.  But then, I'm judging.

I just have to come to accept that, generally, there are Letter of the Law Mormons and Spirit of the Law Mormons.  The Letter of the Law Mormons like rules and wish for more rules because then it would be easier to judge other people and would be easier to govern themselves.  They wouldn't have to rely on maturity and conscience and faith in God's mercy and atonement.  The Spirit of the Law Mormons understand that the principles are more important than the practise.  

I also need to remember that I used to be a Letter of the Law obsessive, that I used to judge others all the time-- like, practically as a hobby, and that I used to think the gospel was so easy to live because I hadn't really run up against temptation yet and I didn't even know who I was. 

I need to remember that for every time someone opens her ignorant mouth to say, "I am appalled that we're having this discussion! We should follow the prophet, period and that's all there is to say about it!" I can always open my mouth and say, "Speak for yourself.  It's not so easy for some of us and we're okay with that.  Because it makes our living of the gospel, and our attendance here today, all the more impressive.  In the meantime why don't you make yourself useful and bend over so I can warm my cold hands on the warmth of your fiery righteousness."

I need to remember that even if I feel like I'm in a minority amongst Mormons, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm the one in the wrong.

If you find it easy to be Mormon, good for you.  I don't.  And that's why I'm so extremely awesome:  Because I choose to be Mormon anyway.  If you're nice, I might ask the Relief Society to make you a quilt to keep you warm as you sit there in my shadow.

Daily Gratitudes

1. I can't believe I'm writing this and not lying:  Everyone but Lulu ate and loved the bacon shrimp butternut squash risotto I made for dinner.  Cue Handel's Messiah.
2. It still hasn't snowed.
3. I'm almost back to normal after this swine flu.
4. I still get to sleep in all week. At least that's one good part about the kids being off another week.
5. I had a lovely conversation with my dear friend Pam today.  She's a significant blessing to me.

Comments

[Th.]

.

Opening up about struggles in faith is a noted trademark of my current ward. Result? Many people stick around as active members who didn't elsewhere. And many Good Members move away as fast as they can.

But the good thing is that ward boundaries are rather porous here. So people tend to select their preferred ward type. To a point, anyway.

[sloanie]

I was reading about witch trials today... haha. Funny how it kinda relates in the whole sense of Puritanical behavior and judgement.

I probably shouldn't get such a kick out of the fact that I watched my first rated R movie at BYU *gasp*.

In any case, what kills me about the first scenario you described is that someone could keep the letter of the law, go through the motions, and still end up in hell, while someone who, heaven forbid, has seen some R rated movies, might end up ahead of them because the applied their mind and their heart to understanding and living the Gospel-- not just the rules. A movie won't destroy your soul. It may influence you in one direction or another, and it's wise to be mindful of what you feed your spirit, but really? Losing your salvation over one movie?

Second scenario: wow. If Christ were there and knew she wasn't doing her best, do you think he'd respond like that? Doubtful. Why are people so quick to tell other people how they should live their lives? Why are we so quick to compare ourselves spiritually to other people?

You know, they say the glory of God is intelligence... ;)

[sloanie]

You know, I gave this subject some thought today as I was driving. I was thinking about that teaching of pure religion-- James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

In essence it is looking after one another in love.

Paul in 1 Cor. ch. 13:

"1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
  2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
  3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

You might just as well add "though I don't drink coffee or tea, if I have not charity, I am nothing. Though I watch not R rated movies, if I have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Though I pay my tithing in full, if I have not charity, I am nothing."

The point is not that we shouldn't try to do those things-- absolutely we should try to "keep ourselves unspotted from the world" as possible. But what's the point of using those things to COMPARE ourselves to others? There's no charity there. You'll never help save a soul by judging what you see externally. Only by loving and getting to know them so that you can find out what you can do to serve them and help them-- rather than letting your mind busy itself finding things wrong that you can judge them for. Instead of saying "you could go to the temple more often because I do", you could instead offer to help find a way to help them get to the temple more often. Right?

Anyways. The real question is, what's the enlightened, charitable, Christ-like way to respond to these people we're judging as judgmental? :D

[Linds]

I'm lurking from Brandi's blog. I really liked this post. I think you really hit the nail on the head- that people shouldn't judge another circumstances because they don't really know all the particulars. And here's a shocker- not all rated R movies are evil. Yes there are some that should probably be avoided, but there's some (like you pointed out) are rated R for maturity sake. People who are judgmental piss me off to no end.

[Sam, the Nanti-SARRMM]

Good blog post. I completely agree.

[Rich]

If I cut out all R rated movies, I'd miss out on some really important stuff, like "Eagle vs. Shark. Thanks for making me smile today -- great post.

[Brandi]

Some days it's like you've read my mind and wrote exactly what I was thinking.

[Screwed Up Texan]

Brilliantly written.

One of the biggest reasons I became inactive for a period of time were the judgmental attitudes of (mostly the) women in the Church. When I did finally decide to come back, I did fully aware that there would be others that would judge me. However, it was my approach to these hypocrites that really mattered. I didn't have to be annoyed or insulted by them. The gospel of Jesus Christ is my life, but the members of my church are not.

I think through sharing our life experiences that we find others that we can relate to and that can (hopefully) help us become better people. We learn through others and isn't that one of the greatest joys in life?

[Natasha]

Screwed Up Texan: Ya, it can be hard to be around annoying people all the time but I especially appreciated what you said about not letting it affect you. "The gospel of Jesus Christ is my life, but the members of my church are not." Well put.

I agree that by sharing our experiences we help other people with similar struggles to feel supported. Getting through this together is one of the greatest joys in life.

[heather]

You're brave to start this converstation. I agree with the point of what you are saying.
I think we need to be careful not to judge the people we feel so judged by. Just let the judgemental things they are saying roll off our backs and not bother us. We don't know if they really are that bad or just thoughtless.
When I feel judged by someone it is about something I already feel insecure or guilty about. I am feeling judgment when most of the time it is coming from myself, not them.

I love that we can have these coversations here! It is so freeing and liberating. It's really the only place where I have experienced such honesty and openess about parts of life which need to be discussed but are so often passed over. There are some forums where it is good to talk like this (here, with our friends)and others (Young Womens, fast and testimony meeting) Where we are to teach simple gosple teachings. Maybe that's why some people aren't comfortable talking like we do here ever. Church is a special place where we cary ourselves in every way with more reverence. Outside of church we Need to be able to talk about everything, our struggles, hang ups, frustrations temptations without feeling judged. Which is one reason why Becoming Something is such a wonderful place.

Also, I have watched R rates movies which were much better than some PG13 and I use my judgement but lets not use that as excuse to watch R rated movies. This has been such a hot topic my while life, why are we all so stuck on this? If Carrie chooses to never watch an R rated movie Go Carrie! Don't feel judged because you do. There will be so much fewer swear words permanently etched in her brain than the rest of us. Applaud her efforts to make her life and head that much cleaner, leaving more room for nicer things, despite the scorn she recieves from people who are trying to be good like her.

[Amanda (Mander)]

If only everyone would realize that being judgmental will get them nowhere, it will only hinder them in their own salvation. It is those people who have not had their faith tested or been tempted to a certain level who find things to be so easy and then deem it appropriate to come down on others for "not trying their best" because it should be easy for everyone else, just as it is for them. right?

This is an area where I have been struggling with my roommates, two of them are the letter of the law type and come down on me for everything I do or say, they judge my other roommate who mostly keeps to herself and say things like "she has problems, she scares me" and they have not even made the effort to try to get to know her in the slightest. The only reason why I talk to my other roommates is because I've made the effort to get to know them, despite how much they annoy me at times with their false assumptions about me and my other roommate. I have come to know my other roommate, the one who mostly keeps to herself, and have found that we are a lot alike in many ways, both been through a whole ton of crap, she said something that really profound the other day, "maybe people who are judgmental aren't trying to be but, but they are because they are naive, they haven't experienced enough of whatever it is to really understand so they are viewing things through a skewed lens and cannot help the fact that they are judging," I believe Karma though (or whatever it is) will eventually change that, life will be hard for everyone at some point or another but not in the same way and that's what makes it difficult for people to see eye to eye a lot of the time.

with the idea of Karma, I don't want to disclose too much but it's interesting when see it unraveling. In high school there was an issue my family was dealing with and it made it hard for me, there were many days I had to show up to school crying, nobody really cared or tried to help me even though I was clearly in distress...but that's beside the point now. Just after graduation, someone in the same circle as me went through the same thing and she was so upset because in her mind there was nobody she could relate to, nobody who had experienced what she was experiencing. I wanted to shout in her face, "hello! I can help you!" but she was one of the ones who at the time chose to make fun of me for what I was going through, interesting. And of course, Christ has suffered all of it, so we can never say we are alone in that sense, and he is the perfect judge since he has felt everything we will ever feel.

This is kind of jumbled, I hope it makes some sense,

but I don't know I have this theory that people who have been through a lot in life learn important lessons from those trials and thus have a greater capacity for empathy and understanding of others regardless of their situation.

My family has been through the wringer but I have now come to accept that as a blessing, my dad has taught me in countless ways to love and accept everyone regardless of their situation in life and I am forever grateful. It's kind of sad but living in Utah, I find it easier and more beneficial to be friends with people who are either inactive or not mormon at all. I had an interesting conversation in my institute class today with a girl who has a similar point of view, we were observing how everyone has their little groups and even if we try to include ourselves in those groups, they may say hi and make trivial small talk but they go back to their group and then act like they never met us the next time we say hi. So that is something that has always bugged me, how hypocritical people can be, they say mormons are all about reaching out to the lonely and heartbroken and those who need a friend, but I've yet to see that happen. Yes that shouldn't bother me, but it is something that keeps coming back to me, so obviously an important lesson I am still working on learning.

So yeah, to sum up, good post Natasha. :)

[Amanda (Mander)]

sorry a few typos in there...also wanted to add to what my roommate said, that although it's hard, you shouldn't take it personally when people are being judgmental because everything they are doing or saying that is judgmental is in reality a projection of their own insecurities. And she hasn't even read the Four Agreements, fancy that.

[heather]

I have more to say about this topic. Maybe I shouldn't because I may sound Judgemental I don't want to offend anyone but it seems that the people who are most bothered by other people being judgmental are just as judgmental back. (sounds judgemental I know but see how hard it is to talk about without judging?)
I happen to be someone who does not find it incredibly difficult to 'be good' or 'obey the comandments' or what ever non offensive term is best.
Have I been tempted, strongly? Yes.
Have I given in?
Sometimes...
But for the most part it's not that hard for me.
Does that make me better than someone who struggles more?
No. Of course not.
Does that make someone who finds it harder better than me?
I don't know, no one on earth can say.
Does that mean they see things more clearly than I do because they've been through hard times?
Not necessarily. Maybe through a Different and Equally Valid lens. But again, no one on earth can say.

As someone who does not have big, visible struggles in my life but has many silent ones. I would like to say that if you are some one who does, "I am not judging you."
I would appreciate it if you didn't judge me.

[Andria]

I almost left a comment earlier, but I was too bothered! But I'm still thinking about your post, so I wanted to leave a comment.

I agree with you that as Mormon's, we can be judgmental. I'm an active Mormon, but chose to get a tattoo last year. I've seen and heard the backlash. I even had one guy tell me that I'm no longer temple worthy and what an awful person it makes me. It's funny that such a personal decision can turn people into complete jerks.

The reason I got a tattoo: it came out a few years ago that I was sexually abused when I was little. There have been so many lies and so much hurt surrounding it. So I chose to permanently mark myself with the traditional Chinese symbol for "truth." It's on the inside of my left wrist. And it reminds me, on a daily basis, to live my truth, face the truth, and to be honest - no matter how hard it is.

And while many people don't agree with my choice, it was the right choice for me. If people want to condemn me for it, that's their choice. It hurts, yes. But I know where I'm at in my relationship with God. I know He understands me. He's the one that has helped me get through the abuse.

On another note, I feel really bad when we as Mormons choose not to share the good, the bad, and the downright ugly with one another. In dealing with the abuse, it is SO helpful to have people reach out to me and tell me their own stories. It made me feel less alone. Sometimes I wish we'd be brave enough to talk about the hard things openly (when it feels right), even if that happens to be in the classroom on Sunday's. I think we may alienate a lot of people from the church by acting like everything is just dandy in our lives.

[JulesD]

I'm prefacing this comment with the fact that I am simply “curious”. I would like to understand a certain something (noted below) about Mormonism and hope you can enlighten me. For those who may read an unintended tone into my words... no insult is intended.

And, this is an important detail, I am not Mormon.

Here's my question... How did God make the no R rated movie rule known?

Is this something a divine deity, capable of creating the earth and all living things on it, has the inclination to worry about? Do Mormon's believe that God cares about such minutiae. I would imagine he would care more about things like demonstrating caring to others, etc.

Or, are these rules created by human church leaders who interpret the Gospel? If that’s the case, then it’s an interpretation by a human. Regardless of the human’s qualifications, that person is still only human.

This question, about how such rules are made, probably requires a book to answer adequately, but thank you in advance for whatever summary you can provide on how a rule like this one is made. I am intrigued.

[JulesD]

Oh... and YAY to your ALL your gratitudes. But particularly the first one. Please share the recipe!

[Amanda (Mander)]

Julesd, I think basically (strictly my interpretation) the no Rated R thing is more of a safeguard, not a commandment, because everyone has things that tempt them so for some it may be that watching certain images, hearing certain things, etc. that are presented in so-called Rated R movies may be a small thing that could contribute to a series of things leading up to a person breaking a commandment, so the church said as a blanket statement to stay away from those things as a safeguard. Just like how being told to dress modestly is a safeguard, just another thing to help avoid unnecessary temptation.

[mathgirl]

The only thing that I disagree with what you said was that mathematics is cut and dry, it isn't. Just so you know. This is a major misconception in the world at large.

[Natasha]

Heather:

I think what happens is that the pendulum swings. We have a natural reaction to want to give a taste of the medicine that's been imposed on us. We see that with some of the gay marriage community wanting to put Mormons in the closet, wanting to make us feel ashamed of our views. And we say, hey, that's hypocritical!

It's the same thing with people who've felt judged. Their kneejerk reaction is to lash back.

You make a good point in asking that people who have an easy time living the gospel not be judged. But be careful to note that I didn't do that. What I'm annoyed about is the voicing of indignation over people who DO struggle. In both the examples I gave there were women who were judging other women for what they didn't find easy or what they were doing that was wrong. You're not someone I know to do that, Heather. You're not someone I can picture saying in Relief Society, "Look. This is what the leaders say. I do it and you should too." or whatever.

I know what you mean about the silent struggles. Can be pretty excruciating.

[Natasha]

LOL @ MATHGIRL. My husband sort of said the same thing. And math was not my best subject. I never did calculus so I was thinking of basic math principles. 2 + 2 will always equal 4. Etc.

Jules: The idea is that the prophet and apostles are prophets, seers and revelators. They receive inspiration through the holy ghost, just like I do, but they have the right to receive this revelation for the whole church. So, they get these revelations of general principles and then it's up to us to pray about that which we've heard and see how we can apply them to our lives.

And yes, the details do matter. Our character is made up of details as well as the big decisions we make. That which we watch becomes a part of us and if we watch inappropriate material all the time, it starts to become a part of us. I know that even being on Twitter and engaging in conversations with people who are not Mormon, who swear, who have different standards than me, affects my sense of discretion for what I think is funny or whatever. Even in one evening, if I'm tired and not on guard, the conversations taking place around me will affect my own conversation.

There's a great scripture about how God cares about even the little bird that falls from the tree. He CAN be bothered. That's one of the things that's so great about God. His time is not our time. He does have time to worry about everyone and everything.

I get really annoyed with the idea that there's right and wrong in everything. It overwhelms me. And of course, there isn't really right and and wrong in EVERYTHING but I do believe there's right and wrong in most things.

I also know, however, that we don't need to worry right now about all the rights and wrongs.

Did I answer that or just blather?

[Lesa]

"In the meantime why don't you make yourself useful and bend over so I can warm my cold hands on the warmth of your fiery righteousness." This phrase made me smile...a lot. I think you could make it into a plaque...or at the very least a bumper sticker.

People can be incredibly self righteous without even knowing it. I often wonder if they're hoping the requirements for heaven are set up like a kindergarten classroom where you get a gold star every time you do something "right"...not realizing that doing what's right isn't always just following the rules (commandments). Sometimes life requires you to be innovative, maybe even adlib a bit. While the commandments are black and white, life isn't always. Seriously, getting into heaven doesn't just mean you follow a list of do's and don'ts...does it?! If that's the case, could someone please email me the checklist!

[Natasha]

There IS a checklist, Lesa. *giggle* It just might not be enough if your heart's not in the right place.

[Amber]

OK...not to take away from some good insights and honest opinions in this post...but you had me at "risotto"! Next time you're stuck for writing inspiration, simply post that recipe!

P.S---I'm still having a vision of St Peter at the Pearly Gates asking for "Just gimme a liddle of yer best Franny McDormand and we'll invite ya in, ya?"

[Melessa]

Just so you know, I linked to this today. I've wanted to write something like this for weeks and I doubt I will ever do it so well.

And yes, the hotness of Jude Law IS a universal given. ;)

[Natasha]

Amber: It was one of my finer thoughts. I better bone up on my Garrison Keillor-does-Minnesota accent. Secondly, as for the recipe: chop up some bacon, cook it until it's just orange crispy. Take out the bacon. Add some shrimp. Cook it. Take it out. Add a bunch of garlic and onion and sauté until soft. Add 2 cups arborio rice. Cook until just opaque in middle. Add some chopped up raw butternut squash and some sage if you roll like that. Add some of 8 cups chicken or veg stock. Stir til it's absorbed. Add more. Repeat the add/absorption thing until all the stock is gone and the rice is creamy. Done. Easy. As for quantities of bacon and garlic, etc: as much as you want.

Melessa: DUDE. You can be my co-chair for the world domination club. Because you're obviously insightful. (Jude Law will be our mascot.)

[JQ]

Just a little something I just learned from a friend in the last few weeks (a guy who writes for FARMS -- or whatever they call it now). As we know, Nephi I was trying his best to live the Law of Moses. Apparently (I haven't looked this up, I just went on FARMS guy's word) he was entitled, according to the Law of Moses, to lawfully take Laban's life because Laban had stolen all his property and made an attack on the lives of Nephi and his three brothers. I always used to think of this as an exception to the usual rule but under the Law of Moses, it's not. I don't think a hard Mosaic reading of the event changes anything in your argument -- in fact, I think it adds strength to your point that we can't know, and often fail to realize, every single underpinning of other people's (or our own, I guess) choices. Still, interesting...

[Natasha]

Ya, that's right. Had I given that a moment's thought, that would have been obvious. Nephi lived during the Mosaic Law.

I don't think that strengthens any argument other than the point that there are lower laws and higher laws, and sometimes the Mormons that get all caught up with the proper ways for doing everything remind me of the jews who got their undies in a bunch with Jesus. "But the law says this!"

[Amanda]

I know nothing about being a Mormon, but I view what you're saying as a Catholic and feel the exact same way. As you know Ireland is a Catholic country, I went to an all girls convent school, prayers, mass and religion were a daily thing. I struggled with it like you say. Even as a kid I remember thinking people were hypocrites, just because you chat with the priest or put flowers on the alter on a Sunday, but gossip and are generally a judgmental mean person, does that mean you're getting into Heaven first? I was so confused. Now from an adult point of view, I find it hard to reconcile being human and being a devout Catholic. I feel it's a bunch of rules and the point of being a good person is lost. I see so many people follow the rules and dust their hands like they have it covered, I think it's like you said, it's the reason behind doing things that matters to me.

I try to follow Christ's teachings, he really wasn't that judgmental, he seen good in everyone, he reached out to everyone. Judgement is part of being human I know, but like you said, you make assumptions and who knows the reasons for anything. I try to be open.

I still have a hard time saying I am not Catholic, the guilt is instilled. A bolt of lightening is what I am expecting because it was ingrained in me that the Catholic Church was the one true church.

I am not a sophisticated writer and very conscious that my writing here is very basic and layman terms, I am more of a conversationalist.

[gina]

It is posts like this that are the reason I will always read you. You make such great points and say things so well.

These issues; letter of the law/spirit of the law, black/white judgments, "doing your best" -All so interesting to talk about.

It is a trip talking to judgmental people - and we've all been that person at times. People are judgmental because they probably haven't had to face their HARD THING yet. YET. They will - because we all do. And through that thing have an opportunity to change, to humble ourselves and gain a little perspective. It is a difficult process, but a good process. A life-long process. I'm grateful for what I've learned/am learning about being less judgmental, and hope I'll keep improving in that area - being open to those lessons as life presents them.

All this talk just re-emphasizes how very thankful I am, that the LORD knows my heart, and is my only REAL judge. I find great comfort in that, don't you?

Thanks for the great post- for sharing your opinions so freely. The result is you are teaching some very important concepts - and anyone who reads benefits.

Have a great day!!

[gina]

The comment form wouldn't include my site - but here it is so you know who you are talking to. http://ginamharris.blogspot.com

[sloanie]

2 different thoughts. One is in response to something Heather said. I recall thinking this a number of times-- as a young single adult, I often hear my pears talk about how ridiculously HARD it is to live the gospel. Most of the time I disagree with this statement. Rather I think we make it hard to live... I think it's inherently probably very easy to live. Perhaps another discussion for another time. (OK so Yoda disagrees with me. The dark side is quicker, easier and more seductive, apparently ;)

What I really wanted to mention was this. Yesterday a co-worker said, out of the blue, "you're awesome." It wasn't one of those cliche ways of saying "thank you" that you know aren't that sincere, like "You're the best!" "You're my favorite!" Yeah, words are cheap. Or we cheapen them, anyhow.

Anyways, this was said sincerely. And I don't take compliments well. And having this blog post in recent memory, it struck me that the most judgmental person I know, when it comes to being judgmental of me, is me.

I wonder what goes through the minds of these people who are so judgmental towards others. I wonder what their own self-esteem is like. I often think that the cockiest, most self-righteous people are often those putting on a facade out of insecurity. Maybe they're in denial or don't recognize their own pride. It always amazes me how many people seem to admit to pride or recognize it in themselves. I only needed to read President Benson's talk "Beware of Pride" a time or 2 before I was acutely aware of nearly every aspect of pride in my life, and I'm ever conscious of my own.

Most people are probably not as rotten as we think they are. Some may be in denial, others may be putting on a facade and find it easier to direct their judgment towards others than face their own demons, but deep down I think they're struggling, even if they have too much pride to ever admit it.

So I draw two conclusions from this. One is that we should cast out the beam from our own eye before worrying about our brother's (I think this is obvious to all of us), and two, one of the surest ways to cast our own out is to just love our brother (idea being that our own burdens are lighter when we focus on helping others).

Maybe y'all aren't nearly as critical of yourself as I am of me. I may never be good enough :)

[sloanie]

(Did I really call my peers pears? hahaha. spelling FAIL.)

[Amanda (Mander)]

and yay for spelling judgmental correctly! I judge people on their spelling ;-P

[Natasha]

Amanda:

Okay, actually "judgemental" is correct in some countries and I can never remember if it's British or just Australian. If it's the way it's spelled in Britain then it's the way it's spelled in Canada. But I was too lazy to look it up so I just changed all my "judgemental"s into "judgmental"s.

Sloanie and Heather:

I hope you didn't think that I was trying to say that if I find the gospel hard that makes me a better Mormon or something. I don't. And I was being facetious when I made my last comment about the blanket and the shadow, of course. I was being a brat because I found it deeply satisfying to be a brat because I'm immature.

I'm sure that the church leaders find it easier to be Mormon than I do and it's not because they've never had to face temptation.

However, it's also very possible that they haven't faced temptation like I have. Both of you have been raised in the church. Mike, I don't know what your home life was entirely but I've gotten to know a couple of things. Heather, both your parents weren't LDS but I know your mom and she's a wonderful example, right? You don't know what it's like to be raised in an environment that's opposite to the gospel in MOST ways and to then have to become someone who's totally different from what has become a part of you even when you've tried to resist what's become a part of you.

I really doubt that President Hinckley has faced temptation like I have. He was always in an environment that fostered obedience. Yes, he still had to make the ultimate choice but his family was Mormon, he served a mission, he worked in the church for years.... The environment that surrounded him reflected his religion back to him. Then, to whom much was given, much was expected. I'm sure devoting his whole life to the church was really, really hard at times. Maybe it even felt like a huge sacrifice (although I have trouble imagining our beloved late prophet saying that).

I use him as an example to make it clear that I don't think it makes me superior that I think some gospel principles are hard and I live them anyway. I think it's one thing that makes me awesome but not superior. OBVIOUSLY I'm not superior to the prophet.

People who complain about the gospel being hard, people who use that as an excuse for not living it, well, that's not really awesome but I understand it. For them it IS hard. And even if they took many little steps that led them to a point in their journey that has made it hard to live the gospel, I still feel compassion for them, not disparagement, if that's a word.

I used to think it was all easy. What I didn't know were the ways I wasn't living the finer points of the gospel. And maybe I'm still not and don't know it but I do know some ways I'm better than before.

When I did think it was easy, I also thought it was easy to judge other people who didn't think it was easy, much like I feel Carrie and Angie did in these examples. Especially since I was a convert. Like, geez, I find this easy so why don't you, you lifelong Mormon? So embarrassing remembering how I thought.

Sloan, I felt uncomfortable with the first part of your comment because just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. The gospel is simple, YES! The letter of the law is straightforward, totally. But that's not the same thing as "easy". People have all sorts of reasons to find it difficult.

I have a very difficult time viewing sex as something SACRED. I wasn't raised to think it was. I was raised to think it was something casual, fun, funny, and not even all that private. I was never given any lessons on ways I would need to be careful with sex. I was taught nothing good and righteous about it WHATSOEVER. So, then I join the church and I believe and accept all the church teachings about sex, but I don't RELATE to all of them. And why should I be expected to relate to them? You know that scripture, train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it? Well, the reverse is also true.

So, ya, some things that are easy for other people are not easy for me and it's not ALL my fault. It's not all because I'm just spiritually lazy.

What makes you awesome is different from what makes me awesome. Just because I said that I'm awesome for trying to live the gospel even though I think it's hard doesn't mean that I'm better than someone who thinks it's easy. They might be awesome FOR thinking it's easy! Their awesomeness doesn't cancel out my awesomeness and vice versa. Okay? I hope that was understood.

I don't feel bad for STILL being tempted to drink coffee or wine. Jude has been a member of the church for 24 years and he still gets tempted to drink Earl Grey tea and coffee and alcohol and HE NEVER DOES. So, ya, it's not always EASY to us but there's absolutely no reason why we should feel badly about that!! It's what we decide from there that matters. And what we decide and when is personal.

[sloanie]

Just to be clear, my comment wasn't meant to belittle any struggle that anyone has, nor to suggest that I personally find the gospel "easy" to live. These people who say it most were raised in it as much as anyone. Sometimes it's difficult for them because they're surrounded by people who *claim* the same faith but don't live it-- it becomes easy to justify behavior that way.

Anyways, I don't find it easy... but my rational mind believe that whether it's easy or not is a function of how we think about it (and yes you can't undo years of influence and thinking a specific way about a specific subject in an instant, I understand that). Perhaps what's truly difficult is changing our perspective or our desires. Because the "doing" part *could* be easy if it was what we deep down wanted more than anything.

That's all. I was just perhaps waxing a bit philosophical without explaining enough my thought process. I simply don't find it productive for those people to focus on "difficult" and think "difficult". Your thoughts, those that you accept and believe, determine how you feel about things.

Now, just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean I discipline myself and my thoughts to where it's "easy" ;)

Of course... I also really believe that we're here to overcome weaknesses, and that it's natural for those to entail a struggle, that's how we grow. Maybe I'm going to contradict myself... so let me make a distinction. I don't view the "Gospel" as being difficult, I view our own weaknesses as being difficult to overcome. This is why maybe some aspects of the Gospel are easy for some people, and other aspects are really difficult. Maybe I just don't agree with how people express the sentiment and it's just semantics.

So overcoming weakness being difficult. I loved this episode in the first season of LOST. Locke shows Charlie a cocoon:

"You see this little hole? This moth's just about to emerge. It's in there right now, struggling. It's digging it's way through the thick hide of the cocoon. Now, I could help it - take my knife, gently widen the opening, and the moth would be free - but it would be too weak to survive. Struggle is nature's way of strengthening it."

And so perhaps it's not meant to be easy. Self contradicted. :) But I also don't believe anyone gets out of life without enduring / overcoming struggles that are tremendous to them. You cannot compare your life to a prophet of God's-- perhaps circumstances and thus some of his struggles were vastly different than yours, and I know you're not saying you're better. I'm just saying we don't know how everyone struggles, born in the church or not. I bet if you could choose between your burdens and the prophets you might quite prefer your own.

What I do know is the power of Christ through the atonement to truly change an individual's heart, which really changes who they are. All these things that we think we're stuck with because of years and years of experience, they don't have to define who we are. They don't have to be permanent. We're just stubborn and of little faith.

[Natasha]

Mike, er, Sloanie, I can see how the semantics would bother you. I get what you're saying now.

And of course, I totally agree that things become easier when our hearts are in the right place. That's the hardest part: wanting God's will in all things. And it gets harder and harder the more we live in a world that is less and less in line with God's will.

Like Locke, I see beauty in the struggle. don Miguel Ruiz says that we're perfect the way we are, we don't need to be something we're not, and I'm not sure I know exactly what he intended by that. He might very well mean it literally, in which case I don't agree. But I take it this way: Our imperfection, our finding it difficult-- it's beautiful. It's perfect the way it is. As long as we're trying to be better-- it's perfect the way it is. Because of Christ's atonement, because he makes up for the difference. All of our struggles, even our rebellion, it's good enough that God let it be. You know? I have a hard time articulating this-- a REALLY hard time so forgive me if I'm not making sense. I just think of how God knew in advance that he'd lose some of his children and that child who is lost, that's not good or perfect, but when you look at everyone and everything at a distance... it's perfect. It's the way it is, the only way it could be, and we have Christ to make everything okay, if we accept his atonement. So, as long as we're trying to be better, even if we're so far from where we need to be, it's good.

I'm blathering. Just musing aloud. I don't even know why.

[M.]

Natasha, a friend of mine introduced me to your blog several weeks ago and I have enjoyed reading it ever since. This post in particular touched me, so I'm actually going to take my courage in both hands and post a comment.

I grew up in a Mormon home. My family went to church on Sundays, both my parents had callings in our ward. Also, my dad molested me (technically he was my stepdad, but he was the only dad I'd ever known and didn't refer to himself as my stepdad until I was at college). He cheated on my mom. And one day in April when I was in 8th grade, he beat her nearly to death. It was a Sunday. I was making hotdogs for my younger siblings for lunch. He had spent the night with another woman after calling my mom to tell her he would be home soon. She was in the hospital for a month and had three major surgeries.

Up to this point I had been in the honor society at school. I didn't have a 4.0 GPA, but I was a solid B student with several A's for good measure. I could have done better if I wanted to, but school was easy enough that I got good grades with a bare minimum of output. I was not, technically, doing my 'best.'

Six months after my mom go home from the hospital, we had to up and move, leave the state, in one horrific day. It was the day after my birthday (the actual 28 year anniversary is coming up this very weekend). I didn't get to say goodbye to my friends. We moved with clothes still in the washing machine. We had to leave before my dad got back from his hunting trip and wouldn't let us leave at all.

I was a freshman in high school, and some major poop hit the proverbial fan. There were days I would get up and not even make it to the door before I was back in bed, sobbing. I missed a lot of school that first year, but it gradually got better to where I could attend regularly. Still, I didn't get my first A in high school until my senior year. And that was my best. I went from being in the honor society to not dropping out of high school. That was pretty darn amazing.

Our 'best' changes from day to day. Sometimes minute to minute. Some days I'm a lazy slob because I'm a lazy slob. And some days I get even less done and it's a miracle. I live in Happy Valley now, the hub of Mormondom and I drive up and down the freeways and see billboards about moms on meth. It cannot be such a widespread issue here to have so many moms addicted to meth but have none of those moms be Mormon moms. It is statistically impossible. Yes, we do need to do our best, and yes, sometimes we let ourselves off the hook for not 'doing our best.' I think that often the problem lies in our definition of 'best.' I think 'best' is equated with 'perfection.' We think we need to be 'perfect'. I hear that over and over again, from my friends, and goodness knows my husband hears it from me. I can't do it all. I can't. And sometimes I sit down and cry because of it. But the root of perfect is not 'flawless'. Perfect means to finish, follow through. I believe we've heard that before too. Endure to the end. We don't stop. We don't give up. We also don't do it all flawlessly. That's our best. Maybe if we really understood that there wouldn't be so much depression, meth addiction and judging going on.

Back to my fascinating life story. A few years after we moved I took a day trip with our neighbors, who happened to be LDS (I did not move to Utah until I was in my 20s, so this was a big deal for me, out in 'the mission field' as they say around here). We stopped to visit with a friend of theirs from a previous ward. She didn't know me from anyone, knew nothing about my life. I sat and listened to her tell my friend that there was NEVER a reason for divorce. EVER. I got all cold inside and thought, not even sexual abuse? Not even almost-murder? Really? Either she had a very skewed view on marriage (and o God, that he could condone those things inside a marriage) or she had no idea those things actually happen, even in 'good' Mormon homes.

One last thing, then I'll shut up. I was a Relief Society president a few years back and I learned something that has forever changed the way I see my sisters. Again I'm going to rely on statistics (I know NOTHING about statistics except that this must be true). I learned enough things about enough sisters in my ward to know that everybody has some personal pain they carry in their hearts. The complete randomness and overwhelming numbers make it statistically impossible to not be true. And if you feel that you truly have nothing in your life that you have had to overcome, one way or another, and don't see how other people can have such big problems, then I submit that there's your trial right there. If we really were open and trusting with each other, we would find ourselves surrounded by amazing women with incredible strength and we could support each other. But we need to remember the whole mote and beam thing.

I'm sorry for babbling on for so long. Apparently it's not a good idea to get me going. I might not stop.

[Natasha]

M, Your story was very compelling and teared me up. Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you had to feel that pain.

I agree: Everyone has a story that would break your heart.

[Carina]

As the Carina Natasha referenced in the story, I'm really enjoying this discussion.

Thanks, Natasha!

[Sam, the Nanti-SARRMM]

Wow. I just want to thank you all for commenting and Natasha for posting all of this information. It helps open my eyes a little with each new blog post.

And detracts from the time I should be studying for my math test. Oh well.

[Monique]

Being out in the "mission field" where Mormon friends are hard to find, I have realized that there are probably more people who aren't LDS that will be farther up in line than I will be for heaven. Really. AMAZING people are all around us. And they might even *gasp!* smoke!!! And I am the Relief Society President and my hubby is the Branch President... which means SQUAT and yes, we know that is "against the rules" to have the Branch President and the RS President sleeping together, but we are doing the best we can with 5 Melchizedek Priesthood holders.

I LOVED the comments about how my 'best' is different than your 'best' and you just ALWAYS have to assume that they are simply doing their 'best.' But then again, if I judge another person for not being their 'best,' then that might just be my 'best' for the day, right??

[JulesD]

Thanks for the explanation and comments, both directly to my question and to those of others. This was very informative.

I have a hard time comprehending belief in any omnipotnet being, from any religion. Every time I read or hear things like this from what seem to be thoughtful and intelligent representatives of their respective religions, I learn a little bit more.

It will never convince me to also believe in any god-like power, whatever that power may be called in it's various religions, but I know that is not your (directed to all commenters and Natasha) goal. What it will help me do though, is to understand the viewpoint of others and I am grateful for that.

[JulesD]

Sorry for the typos... I should have spell checked as I'm still jet-lagged.

[Natasha]

It's amazing and wonderful that you're so open-minded, Jules, and that you care to understand.

[anniereesespieces.blogspot.com]

You're a smart lady Natasha. That's all.

[Amanda (Mander)]

My comment about the spelling was completely tongue in cheek just so you are aware.

[LaurieBee]

Where was I that I missed all this? Great post, Natasha -- and really enjoyed reading all the comments too.